(reply to Boys vs Girls) Delusions of Gender

[sageda]

So I've been reading this book called Delusions of Gender. It debunks all the pseudo scientific theories that claim that males and females are "evolutionarily and inherently" different. This book deals with social conditioning and gender salience.

For example, if a boy is told that he will do well in math, he will. If a girl is told that she will do more poorly than boys, she will. If she is told she will excel in English, she will. If you do the opposite, then you get the opposite results. Even filling out "male/female" in a test affects performance.


And the idea that females are better with emotions is also because it is more permissible for women to show emotions than it is for men so men naturally condition themselves to bottle it up and not be as expressive.

Point is, this whole "boys are like this girls are likes this" theory is total BS. It's all social conditioning.

What do you guys think?

[hannahs]

I don't think that is all true. Even if "boys are like this girls are like this" theory is due to social conditioning, nature has a lot to do with it too.

www.cbc.ca/news/background/reimer/

This is an article about a "boy who was raised as a girl"
so basically it's about a baby boy who was getting circumcised and it went wrong and the doctor burnt his part really badly and couldn't surgically heal it. So this boy named Bruce Reimer had to get his testicles removed. The parents didn't tell anyone about this and raised Bruce as Brenda. They kept it a secret from everyone including Bruce himself. He was raised as a girl, dressed in dresses and learning to wear make up. However, Brenda was not happy and knew he or she was always different. Brenda attempted to commit suicide three times because he felt so different from other girls. He didn't like playing with girls but he got into fistfights.

I think this shows that boys and girls do differ. It's not all social conditioning, nature plays a big role too.

[joannekim]

I believe nature and nurture both work strongly on girls and boys. Examples given by Hannah and Min show that girls and boys are naturally different; I also heard that different hormones come out in women and men, which affect them very much. However, I also believe social conditioning plays big role in shaping a child. Various social media tells people how girls and boys should act and think, and it seems like many girls and boys follow it. If there wasn't social conditioning, boys and girls may act in a way they naturally want to act.

[juliekim]

I don't think there's anything wrong about being different. If we weren't supposed to be different, then wouldn't we all be the same gender? What's the point in having two genders if both genders are going to have the exact same qualities? Of course there's a lot of generalization going on, and it's true that we make stereotypical judgments against both genders. But I don't think the issue is whether we're different or not. It's more on why we equate being different with being inferior/unequal because that's where all that sexist stuff comes from.

[sujeonggg]

I agree with Joanne. I think boys and girls are originally different as they were born to be. So in prior to their acquired characteristics and home environment, their inborn/natural characteristics must be different. And as Hannah's example shows, boys are boys and girls are girls no matter how are they shaped. Even though Brenda was raised to be a girl, he felt repulsion toward himself being a girl naturally.

[davidh]

well. I think i depends on people's opinion.... I agree with you on something but not 100%. But you are right about certain things. There are definitely thing that boys should not always have to do and things that girls always have to do. I mean... not everyone are perfect. there are people who are good at one thing and bad at the other. But, what's different is the things they are good at. Boys could be good at art even though some people think that girls should be good at art.

[jessicak016]

This discussion reminds me of the "Nature VS Nurture" conflict, where some people thought that nature is the most responsible for shaping human personalities and characteristics while some believed that the way humans are raised determined their characteristics.
I think that both of them are responsible for making boys and girls different though. Both of them shaped what boys and girls are today because of different hormones and how society treats them.

[cathysjun]

I also agree that society does have a great influence on how each gender would act. People tend to try to be like what others' expect them to be.

[edward08]

I strongly agree with joanne however the debate between nature vs nurture is very confusing wether boys or girls are better. But as mister miller said is psych class bous have more difficult time in learning in school that gorls do. But rhis does not mean that bous are less smarter than girl and intelligence is hard to know

[sammy576]

I think conditions with gender, like edward said, are a debate between nature vs. nurture. Personally I believe that it is society that does more of the reinforcing in the gender behaviors because ever since birth I dont think anyone is "programmed" to act tough or girly.

[elijahlee]

I think that social conditioning does play a part, but also simply just testosterone levels versus estrogen levels. Chemicals will affect how you act from things. But, also you are totally right about the restrictive effects of society. What comes to mind is the media and how they portray an ideal male as someone with not affected by emotions while an ideal female will always express emotion.

[sarahlee4]

I think its different for all people. Everyone has different views on this whole subject of ''gender''. I think that just becuse youre born with a penis, doesnt always mean you were meant to be manly and just because youre born with a vagina, doesnt mean youre born to be girly. Everyone is born different, whether they like it or not. I think these days, gender is not as important as it was before. these days, people dont even hve to write their sex in their resumes or whatever. I think that whatever way you wanna be, go for it. People round you who truely care for you wont hve. problem with it at all.

[sarahlee2]

I don't think the gender stereotypes are fully due to social conditioning. True, ot does have a huge influence but it is not the whole reason why boys are like this and girls are like something else. The hormones can have a huge effect as well not just the environment. But I definitely think it is important to keep in mind the role that social conditioning plays.

[sang]

I think that the theories have a reason why they are called theories. It obviously can't be applied to every single male and female, but the point is, these theories are derived from big groups of females and males and they probably took the majority and based their theories off of that. So logically, these theories can't completely be all a lie. With that said, I think that you definitely have a point with social conditioning being too much on the gender stereotypes.

[minchoi0923]

I also think that the society affects how people believe each gender should act. However, I think some parts are actually quite true. If there is no specific difference between boys and girls, why would some boys WANT to be girls so badly, like those transgenders? There are many people who would like to change their gender and they have to literally risk their lives in order to do that. This means that there is some great difference between being a man and being a woman that makes them do that. So I think although the society has a huge impact on gender role, there are some categories where genders do not share.